Proton Persil: v1.2 available 2008-12-05

[Tomte]

2008-12-05
update to v1.2
- weight set to 680 kg
- front swaybars back in (were out in the betas for v1.2, long story)
- no downforce
- suspension tweaks
- model repositioned
Ariel Atom v1.2

2008-11-26
update to v1.2
- weight raised to 685 kg
- swaybars deleted
- no downforce
- suspension tweaks
Ariel Atom v1.2

forget it, plug pulled, doesn't work.

2008-11-19
update to v1.1
- torque reduced from 235 to 215
- rev limit reduced from 9000 to 8600
- reduced rear downforce
- increased drag
- reduced wheels.skickyness (0.125 to 0.10)
link removed

2008-11-03
texture fix, the white one was flipped.
v1.0.1 available at LegacyofLies:
link removed

2008-10-28:
beta 1 available at LegacyofLies:
link removed

2008-10-21:
first alpha available at LegacyOfLies:
link removed

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Just to let you guys know that I'm not sitting around all day:

[C14ru5]

Wonderful! Finally a proper competitor to the Radical! I can't wait to beta test.

[DonaemouS]

nice 3D model so far, and I think it's not easy to make all that tubes. But, harder things need to come out yet, once you'll add suspensions...

[leoantix]

reminds me of the atom a bit

[Tomte]

reminds me of the atom a bit

Oh really?

Wonderful! Finally a proper competitor to the Radical! I can't wait to beta test.

I'm not sure about that one. The Radical has some serious downforce. And I didn't plan to do the Atom 500 with the full wing set. It will compete better with the Caterham.

Does anybody fancy modelling some wheels? With brake calipers and mud guards? Comon, I know you like that sort of stuff.

[C14ru5]

I guess the Ariel/Radical balance would depend greatly on the track. On the Top Gear test track, which favorizes high speed above corner grip, the Ariel Atom 2 300 has clocked in at 1:19.5, while the Radical clocked in at 1:19.1.

In a standing start accelleration, I believe the Atom would win, but the Radical should easily win on an average racing circuit.

[Tomte]

... the Ariel Atom 2 300 has clocked in at 1:19.5...

So you want the full fat version? I just about get semi-skimmed (with 245 hp) to work...

BTW, freaking tubes and engine... I blew tri's alone on the exhaust....

[Tomte]

doesn't look like much progress, but the engine, gearbox and exhaust took a lot of polys and time.
I should have something drivable for you quite soon.

[Tomte]

Ok, here you go. First roll out of the Ariel Atom 3. No idea how I should call it, probably beta 1.

It's far from finished, lots of detailing still needs to be done, like wheels, fenders, lights, suspension, steering, pedals, fuel cell. All the stuff you actually see from the outside. Oh, and the textures, but that shouldn't be a lot (hurray )

For now, I only prepared the non supercharged version, i.e. 245 hp at about 550 kg. Go figure.

Some technical data are a bit hazy, especially the weight. It's claimed to be 467 kg or so (kerb/curb, dry???), but I added some fuel and a driver. CoG is a guess, but at least it's rearward. The suspension setup was interesting to say the least. For the beginning, I actually had to drop the supsensionFriction to 0 to get it halfway working.

You all know the video clip showing Clarkson's rearraged face.
Now, is it mad enough? I have the impression it drives like the rest of my rwd cars.

link removed

[DonaemouS]

the 3D model is incredible. Perhaps look quite easy compared to one of my sedan. But, with a real "body", modeling is way easy then place tubes around the space.

[C14ru5]

I love the model as well.

The suspension setup was interesting to say the least. For the beginning, I actually had to drop the supsensionFriction to 0 to get it halfway working.
(...)
Now, is it mad enough?

I really like the handling, but I'm not sure it belongs in this type of car. Right now, it feels a bit like a beach buggy, especially at a bumpy track like Small Rally or Lyngaas. A good place to start may be the suspension travel, short and stiff suspension should give the car more mad handling. I think your 8/12cm is a bit much - Giles' Radical has 4cm. Try something like 0.04/0.06 front/rear. Then there's the voodoo supsensionFriction and damperStrength - right now I don't have any tips.

I have the impression it drives like the rest of my rwd cars.

You'd be surprised how much the engine sound can leave that impression, so it's no surprise it feels like the Porsche 968 right now.

The Lotus Elise has a 37/63 weight distribution in Forza 2, but I think a Radical/Westfield has a much more 50/50 weight distribution. I think weight of the driver placed about in the center of the car should bring the CoG a bit more forward, but I really have no clue how much.

I know you could drive an in Atom in Toca Race Driver 3 if you registered on the Honda website. Maybe I can test the car in that game in a week or two and provide a comparison.

[C14ru5]

I did some tweaking of your .car file to achieve the kind of handling I think this car should have, but of course it's your car so you should be the boss on how it handles. I also synthesized a fake supercharger sound on top on a Honda Civic Type R engine sound.

ArielAtom-C14ru5-edit.zip (400KB)

Stiffer and less suspension travel, brakes that lock up if pressed too hard, much less differentialLockCoefficient (greatly impacts cornering behavior, try it on HSL), removed the custom loadSensitivity and modified the engine sound parameters.

Maybe the suspension travel needs to be longer, you may compare with this Fifth gear shootout video which shows the front suspension quite well. I'm also not happy with the engine sound, the supercharger sounds too thin (and not like you can hear in this video)

BTW, I'm pretty sure wheels.grip is not used by Redline, no matter what value you put there, it seems to have no impact on the handling.

[Tomte]

Thanks a bunch! I'm gonna try it out soon. I'm a bit lost with regards to the handling, so all input is welcome.
About that supercharger sound. For now, I only plan to use the non-supercharged engine. Any change you could modify your soundfile to exclude that?

I also think that 4 or 6cm for suspension travel is a bit low. The videos I saw clearly show some body roll and a working suspension. Then again, I need to get it working in Redline.

[NoNameBrand]

Keep the swaybar ratio the same, but lower both values to get more roll.

[Tomte]

ArielAtom-C14ru5-edit.zip (400KB)

BTW, I'm pretty sure wheels.grip is not used by Redline, no matter what value you put there, it seems to have no impact on the handling.

I took your .car for a spin (thanks again for looking into this).

One of my tests which the car must master is the corner directly before the uphill section at Lime Rock Park. There is a little bump which the suspension must cope with in mid corner.
On my older versions and the one you prepared I have to slow down to 120 kph to survive. Comparing to other plugins, the car should be able to take this at minimum of 160 kph.
I only got rid of the rear losing grip at this location by lowering the supsensionFriction to near 0. But this makes the car dull to drive.
There must be another way.

And I'm sure wheels.grip has at least some influence on the handling of the car. The difference between v 1.0 and 1.1 on the Mercedes Benz 190 was exactly down to that (I raised the wheels.grip from 0.10 to 0.18), with the consequence that the car got easier to drive because it could hold the road better.

[C14ru5]

I only plan to use the non-supercharged engine. Any change you could modify your soundfile to exclude that?

Normally the answer to such a question would be "impossible without destroying its character". This time, however, my original was without the supercharger sound, so it's no problem at all

the car should be able to take this at minimum of 160 kph.
I only got rid of the rear losing grip at this location by lowering the supsensionFriction to near 0. But this makes the car dull to drive.
There must be another way.

Of course there's another way, it's just a question of ingenuity Load sensivity reduction is the most obvious solution, but I'll have a look at any other methods that might work.

[Tomte]

Of course there's another way, it's just a question of ingenuity Load sensivity reduction is the most obvious solution, but I'll have a look at any other methods that might work.

The load sensitivity doesn't make the difference between this car working or not. I found that is was supsension friction.

I just noticed that the Radical can't take this turn either at 160, it has the same problem, but the Caterham can.

I just wonder if I should release every single change in the car file as new beta WIP in true battle style ("I have changed the wheel diameter. Does it drive any different?" )

[Tomte]

Ok, now some lights, wheels and fenders and a little texturing and I'm done, don't you think?

[NoNameBrand]

Looks awesome!

[Valentin K]

Sweeeeet

[DonaemouS]

lol "6000 polys and counting"!

we are getting a new benchmark, here...

[Tomte]

or here:
Ariel Atom 3

I must say that I this was the quickest I ever modelled any car. I'm kinda proud.
Thanks goes to C14ru5 or providing a temporary engine sound and for the handling suggestions. Much appreciated. For now, the car sounds like it has a supercharger, but in fact it hasn't.
Thanks goes also to marcOS for doing his bit on some textures (not that this car has an awful lot of it).
Thanks also to Don who constantly reminded me that I need to bring down the polycount (not that I was very successful).

You see, there is a lot of not, and another thing that isn't done is the handling. So I'm waiting for some feedback.

See you on the track.

[DonaemouS]

no words about the model... It looks just stunning, but there is something need to be fixed on textures and "materials". Look:





The dark grey parts are opaque (presumably fiber carbon), but the colored ones are painted. You should rise the shininess. Also, the engine is white here. In the original there are different material. I suggest to use a texture, helping to mapping the engine.

[Tomte]

The engine was already mapped, but you're right, it's a bit too bright. I will also add some reflection to the paint job, but I don't plan to go overboard and use gradients and such.
On the handling, with every day I find more and more little things to improve it, latest is a reduction in the engine friction settings. I found that the friction settings brake the rear wheels too much, making the car snap very easily at corner entry if one does not apply some throttle so stabilise it (and push it into understeer that way).

I wont bother you with an additional .car file, but for the one who want to try I set both friction values to 15 and 0.015.

[Tomte]

Version 1.0 is nw available in the first post or here:
Ariel Atom 3 v1.0



Thanks go to C14ru5, who provided the engine sounds and helped me with the setup.
marcOS helped out on the textures.
DonaemouS and theSnail were just generally helpful with their comments.
Much appreaciated everyone.

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