Re: Mid-Ohio

[Kenners]

The AI line mainly impacts AI behavior, and not so much AI lap times. For that, one needs to make adjustments to the speedModifier value.

This is basically the method that I followed for Laguna and Silverstone:
-Remove all racing line markers using the menu command in Track Editor
-Make sure that minTrack and maxTrack in the roadtypes are 1-2m inside of the drivable track
-Tedious step: Convert the .road to .plist, find the (key)speedModifier(/key)(integer)0.0(/integer) text snippet and paste it into (each and every?) road segment. I learned that from SlowDan during his work on Dantona.
-Add new racing line markers inside Track Editor, usually leaving more than 8 segments between each point in order for the AI to judge its speed properly. Also, I normally don't drag the racingLine sliders to the extreme values, but instead settle for the area 50% left to 50% right. That makes the cars look more alive.
-Again in the .plist format: Search and replace the speedModifier value, 0.3-0.4 seems to be a golden value, depending on the amount of banking on the track.

Wow.. How the heck did anybody ever figure THAT out?? At least with M-O, the drivable widths are all pretty similar, and there's not a lot of banking, and most importantly, there's no control line shifts (they're a pain in the neck when you're setting minTrack & maxTrack).

The speed modifier values can range from -1 to 1, with 0 being default/Redline calculates it, and pos/neg values adjusting the AI speed up/down?

Why don't I have a go with this process on my M-O WIP folder, see how it goes..

Kenners

[Kenners]

Wow, your instructions really worked great! I am not a great driver anyways, but I cannot keep up with AI now.. Driving the 968 GT3, the 968 Turbo RS AIs walk all over me.

geez; I just posted 1.02 last night, but this is worth another .01. I'll get it out tonight.

Kenners

[Tomte]

Driving the 968 GT3, the 968 Turbo RS AIs walk all over me.

Depending on the track, the turbo RS isn't that much slower than the GT3

[Pax-raider]

AIs walk all over me.

Yeah, I'm wondering if the AI speeds generated with this method are actually too fast; I found the same thing on Silverstone. It seems like the AI's should be a challenge for experienced simmers to beat, but not impossible...? I almost never drive against them, so I don't really care, but for those that do, isn't it frustrating to be unable to stay with them even when driving near perfectly?

[C14ru5]

Yeah, I'm wondering if the AI speeds generated with this method are actually too fast; I found the same thing on Silverstone. It seems like the AI's should be a challenge for experienced simmers to beat, but not impossible...? I almost never drive against them, so I don't really care, but for those that do, isn't it frustrating to be unable to stay with them even when driving near perfectly?

It all depends on the car. The AI doesn't take things like downforce, wheels.stickyness, and added grip through banked corners into account when it determines the speed that it has on the track. Thus, cars with lots of downforce and sticky tires will be driven as slowly as if they had 0 stickyness and 0 downforce.

Should the AI be impossible to beat? Here's my opinion: The AI is purely your own choice with your own car options inside Quick Race (and not something predetermined that you must race against in the challenges, in multiplayer, or in a career mode). Therefore, you may give the AI faster cars or slower cars, depending on how much challenge you want. One of my favorite exercises is to have a short and narrow track crowded with 11 AI cars that are slower than my car, and see how many I can lap during the length of the race. My goal when setting the speed of AI cars, is setting the speedModifier high enough to make it look like the cars are flooring it on the straights, but not so fast that they skid out in the corners.

[djpimley]

Hi Kenners,

Now I'm getting very respectable frame rates all around the track. Thanks!

[Toad]

Just the opposite for me, under 10fps. Very strange as the previous version was giving 40 or better all the way round.

[Kenners]

Just the opposite for me, under 10fps. Very strange as the previous version was giving 40 or better all the way round.

The last version had a ton of alpha transparency on the track, all the tar patches and skid marks. Plus, it had tens of thousands more polys.

The new version has trees in the infield..

Go figure. What are others getting?

Kenners

[Pax-raider]

I'm getting some stretches at 75 steady, others in the 50's & 60's, couple of areas down in the mid 30's.

[Superslow]

Wow. This is a great looking track! Well done!

FPS is good for me... 30 at the lowest and getting up to 70-ish on most of the latter half of the track. I have my video settings at about half, with shadows and lighting off.

[Kenners]

A FINAL update, I promise..

v1.03's only change is AI behavior, based on C's method.

As before, if you've received a PM from me to try this track, the link in the PM is still correct.

If you've lost my PM, just PM me and I'll PM you again.

Kenners

[alphonse]

A FINAL update, I promise..
v1.03's only change is AI behavior, based on C's method.

Works good and looks nice. FPS are reasonable, from about 20-75 (with 11 AI-cars, changing fast at times.

The AI-Drivers are pretty fast - cant keep up with them with the cars i tested so far.

One question remains:
The "ill pm you if you pm me"-method seems to be... new.
Is there any chance you get the permission to release it sometimes?

And: Is hosting it im MP allowed (as long all all participants got a "pm by you".

thanks for the track - its hard - but i like it...

alf

[Kenners]

A FINAL update, I promise..
v1.03's only change is AI behavior, based on C's method.

Works good and looks nice. FPS are reasonable, from about 20-75 (with 11 AI-cars, changing fast at times.

The AI-Drivers are pretty fast - cant keep up with them with the cars i tested so far.

One question remains:
The "ill pm you if you pm me"-method seems to be... new.
Is there any chance you get the permission to release it sometimes?

And: Is hosting it im MP allowed (as long all all participants got a "pm by you".

thanks for the track - its hard - but i like it...

alf

Yeah, MP for sure. There's no way I'll get the VLM folks to OK a public release; hence the private distribution model.. *sigh*

Kenners

[Toad]

Just installed 1.03 and all is well again. Running alone getting 75 fps in the open areas now, dropping to low 30's around the start finish.

Was hoping you would make some more changes because the version before 1.02 worked fine even though it had more stuff in it.

I suspect it's something to do with my Nvidia MBP vid card or some other esoteric computer misunderstanding that made the 1.02 version act up the way it did. Not going to be an issue when my new Imac shows up early next week. Got a great deal ($900) on a new 08' 20" with 256megs vid ram (ATI) and a 7200rpm drive with 4 gigs memory.

Now the MBP can resume more mundane duties working as my business machine and not have to run with the cpu at 105% and the fans warping out at the max.

I hope that's the case anyway.

[Kenners]

Just installed 1.03 and all is well again. Running alone getting 75 fps in the open areas now, dropping to low 30's around the start finish.

Was hoping you would make some more changes because the version before 1.02 worked fine even though it had more stuff in it.

I suspect it's something to do with my Nvidia MBP vid card or some other esoteric computer misunderstanding that made the 1.02 version act up the way it did. Not going to be an issue when my new Imac shows up early next week. Got a great deal ($900) on a new 08' 20" with 256megs vid ram (ATI) and a 7200rpm drive with 4 gigs memory.

Now the MBP can resume more mundane duties working as my business machine and not have to run with the cpu at 105% and the fans warping out at the max.

I hope that's the case anyway.

I always worry a bit about folks w/MBPs and those nVidia GPUs.. They are flaky.. You haven't had any funky colors or nothing, have you?

Kenners

[Toad]

I always worry a bit about folks w/MBPs and those nVidia GPUs.. They are flaky.. You haven't had any funky colors or nothing, have you?
Kenners

Nope, which is too bad, because that's the kind of behavior that will get you a new card from Apple. I never got the overheating or black screens that seem to accompany the Nvidia issue. My problems were "limited" to severe stuttering, low fps and wildly fluctuating fps (which is worse than just low fps). All of which could come and go for no obvious reason.

Almost sure that this problem is the card, even though Apple claims the card is fine. It happens while running rFactor in Boot Camp as a Windows game console too. New machine can't get here fast enough to suit me. Though at the moment it seems to be 1500 miles away in Colorado of all places sitting in some UPS truck.

[Kenners]

I always worry a bit about folks w/MBPs and those nVidia GPUs.. They are flaky.. You haven't had any funky colors or nothing, have you?
Kenners

Nope, which is too bad, because that's the kind of behavior that will get you a new card from Apple. I never got the overheating or black screens that seem to accompany the Nvidia issue. My problems were "limited" to severe stuttering, low fps and wildly fluctuating fps (which is worse than just low fps). All of which could come and go for no obvious reason.

Almost sure that this problem is the card, even though Apple claims the card is fine. It happens while running rFactor in Boot Camp as a Windows game console too. New machine can't get here fast enough to suit me. Though at the moment it seems to be 1500 miles away in Colorado of all places sitting in some UPS truck.

Colorado, huh? Maybe I should grab it for you..

-K

[Kenners]

LITE VERSION AVAILABLE.

I've done up a copy of Mid-Ohio with no trees. I've had a couple of folks try it, and say its playable now, if not at 75 FPS. And it plays in MP with the "heavy" version.

If you have a link to the full version, use it, but change the filename to

Mid-OhioLite.zip

instead of

Mid-Ohio.zip

Get it?

Take the other version out of your plugins folder & drop this one in & unzip it.

When you select the track, the splash screen will say Lite Version.

Kenners

[Pax-raider]

So what was the solution that worked in the end?

[Kenners]

So what was the solution that worked in the end?

I ain't entirely sure..

but: I used the exact same .mapinfo for both versions; I snagged the null.mdl out of the builtin data, created 12 copies of it, and renamed them to the mdls I didn't want in the lite version & replaced the mdls in the redplug. I also changed the splash screen..

I really don't know this for sure, but I suspect if the NUMBER of mdls/ents is different, it won't work.

I don't know whether it would have worked to just change the names of the mdls in the mapinfo that I didn't want to null.mdl.

what a pain..

Kenners

[Kenners]

Okay, folks, let's see what I've accomplished here..

I have a new lite version on my dev space at LoL. The link is unchanged; there is NO CHANGE in version number or anything else, just fewer polys.

We need to test this out. The 2 mapinfo files (for the heavy and lite versions) differ slightly - the coordinates for the walls mdls moved some when I deleted polys.

So - if you had FPS issues, download the Lite version, and post some feedback. Then try it in MP with others who have the heavy version, see if they work together.

Kenners

[Kenners]

OK, it is 0020 UTC on Tuesday Sep 8th 2009 (still Monday here, of course), and I've REPLACED the lite version with an even lighter version. With this version, I deleted the big portable light poles on the left of the start-finish straight (lots of alpha on those), and I turned off environment mapping on all those buildings.

I DID play some MP with folks that have the lite version from yesterday, and there were no problems (thanks for that), so I anticipate no problems with this version either.

Download at the same link, or PM me if you lost it.

I promise NO more fiddling with this. Enjoy.

Kenners

[Kenners]

Hi folks..

Couldn't resist a couple changes; v1.04 now available, Sep 26, 2009

-New AI behavior, based on C14ru5's method;

-New .road file (after listening to OMD whine about how the tracked sucked rocks for RWD cars, I took a look, and there were some bumps in key places which I've smoothed;

-I made the tall cones on the left side of the first corner immovable.

The new versions are available at the same links that you used to get previous versions, and there are still heavy and lite versions. PM me if you need the links again.

Kenners

[djpimley]

Just wondering before I download this - how many more updates in the next 22 hours?

[Kenners]

Just wondering before I download this - how many more updates in the next 22 hours?

smarta$$ I think I'll leave it as is for the race, unless a groundswell of outrage or indignation or some other such reaction (or a request from Alf or Toad) should occur.

Cheers,

Kenners

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