The GT40 Project...
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The GT40 Project...
Battlewagon Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:22 am
1966 Ford GT40 Mk.II Alpha 4 for Redline,
by Battlewagon, A-Rod and the Redline development team,
Released October 27th, 2010.
You may now download it from the Legacy of Lies developer uploads server...
http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/battlewagon/GT40MkIIAlpha4.zip
About two years ago, I began work on a proper GT40 for Redline, both because I wanted one (I was watching a lot of old Le Mans footage at the time), and because people had been requesting one from the earliest days of Redline. I've now run my Alphas through tests with some senior Redliners, and this latest Alpha is finally reasonably drivable. I'm not done with it yet, though, and at the moment it's still using the GT model from the game, so a lot remains to be finished and refined. The following description picks up where Alpha 3 left off...
This alpha contains some handling improvements based around a lowering of the vertical CoG to 0.34. In order to accommodate this change, I also made the following suspension settings...
supsensionFriction 375
damperStrength 15000
frontSwayBar 12500
rearSwayBar 27500
differentialLockCoefficient 90
As for the results, this car is now 1 second slower around Mountainside than the AC Cobra, and about 9 seconds faster around San Francisco GP than the Porsche 959. This sounds good, but really it's not satisfactory to me, for several reasons. First of all, the GT40 should be able to beat the AC Cobra easily, especially since I haven't yet tried to limit acceleration to authentic figures. Of course, the Redline AC Cobra is way too fast, but still the handling advantages of the GT40 should be manifest. As things are, the GT40 is more stable than the Cobra, but if the Cobra is well driven it's faster around corners, which is annoying. Another factor is that the Cobra is faster in a straight line, with 0-60 being reached in 2.7 seconds (the real car could do it in something between 3.2 and 4.2), as opposed to 3.1 on the GT40 (the real GT40 could do it in 4.2). Quarter mile times are also about .2 seconds faster for the Cobra. Using the Cobra's engine settings on the GT40 fails to solve this problem. I've tried it.
Although I think the GT40 is now quite stable and drivable, it's unrealistically fast in a straight line, yet unrealistically slow around corners, even if driving it is reasonably easy. Therefore, the next thing on the agenda will be to see if we can make it faster in the corners without becoming too unrealistic, then limit the acceleration to something resembling realistic figures. For those of you who tried the closed alphas, you'll remember that I'm reusing a lot of the same words from the old read me files, but this is because the statements are still relevant. Basically, this GT40 is better than it was, yet still not better than the Cobra, which within the context of Redline is a problem. Therefore....I'm making this Alpha semi-public by putting it on the Legacy forums and hoping that I can get more input.
-Battlewagon
Alpha history.....
1966 Ford GT40 Mk.II Alpha 3 for Redline
by Battlewagon, A-Rod and the Redline development team
Limited Release October 24th, 2010
This alpha contains some handling improvements largely authored by A-Rod, as well as a new collision box that is completely by A-Rod. The specific changes are...
-A new collision box.
-Rear swaybar decreased to 20500.
-Suspension friction increased to 550 (A-Rod's figure was 500, but I've found that 550 is more stable on Canyon without harming the handling too badly elsewhere).
-Vertical CoG changed to 0.42, with moments of inertia changed accordingly.
-Engine friction changed to 12 base, 0.012 RPM friction (this was also A-Rod's idea).
Here I should note that the two major differences between this Alpha, and then one sent to me by A-rod (other than the suspension friction) are that first of all, I've kept the authentic 38front/62rear weight distribution, and that I've left the differential lock coefficient at 100, since with the original front/rear weight distribution it doesn't seem to provide any benefit, and actually limits handling somewhat.
As for the results, this car is now 1 second slower around Mountainside than the AC Cobra, and about 8 seconds faster around San Francisco GP than the Porsche 959. This sounds good, but really it's not satisfactory to me, for several reasons. First of all, the GT40 should be able to beat the AC Cobra easily, especially since I haven't yet tried to limit acceleration to authentic figures. Of course, the Redline AC Cobra is way too fast, but still the handling advantages of the GT40 should be manifest. As things are, the GT40 is more stable than the Cobra, but if the Cobra is well driven it's faster around corners, which is annoying.
Although I think the GT40 is now quite stable and drivable, it's unrealistically fast, yet unrealistically slow around corners, even if driving it is reasonably easy. Therefore, the next thing on the agenda will be to see if we can make it faster in the corners without becoming too unrealistic, then limit the acceleration to something resembling realistic figures. For the moment, this is a limited release so that the Redline veterans can have a go at analyzing it properly. Please send me your input, if you can, as I'm trying to refine the handling before I decide whether to remodel it.
-Battlewagon
1966 Ford GT40 Mk.II Alpha 2 for Redline
by Battlewagon and the Redline development team
Limited Release October 19th, 2010
This is a tweak of the initial alpha. The changes are...
-The body model is now the one from data.redplug, as opposed to a copy.
-Rear swaybar increased to 27500.
-Front brakes increased to 7000, mainly for stability. They give a 60-0 distance of about 120 feet, which might be too good.
Right now, this car is about 2 seconds faster around Mountainside than the AC Cobra, and about 2 seconds faster around San Francisco GP than the Porsche 959. It can also match or beat the Corvette C6 ZR1 around Mountainside, which may be too good.
Okay, that's it. Check this Alpha out, and please get back to me with your suggestions.
-Battlewagon
1966 Ford GT40 Mk.II Alpha 1 for Redline
by Battlewagon and the Redline development team
Limited Release October 14th, 2010
Much has been said from the very earliest days of Redline about building a real Ford GT40 redplug, as opposed to settling for the Ford GT in the game. Like the real Ford GT, the Redline GT is overweight, and feels very much so. I'm sure I'm not alone in saying that I've lost a lot of races with it because I got stuck in a spin at 50 m.p.h.
So...many people have talked about about building a GT40, so I've made a modest start with this Alpha. To keep things simple, I've kept the original GT body model (to make it for the most part authentic, all that would be needed would be to give the texture accurate taillights and resize the model to 40 inches tall in Model Importer, in addition to building accurate wheel and interior models), and worked on the .car. This GT40 is supposed to be a 1966 Mk.II, with the 427 side-oiler engine. This isn't necessarily the most successful GT40 ever (the Mk. I Gulf might actually have a better race record, depending on one's opinion), and it certainly isn't the fastest if you count the P3 as a GT40, but it is nevertheless my favorite, and the favorite of a lot of people.
You'll notice that with the big 427 engine in the rear, while it's more nimble than the GT from the game, this GT40 is heavy in the rear. I managed to get it reasonably stable given this fact, however, and then after a-rod requested this Alpha, I did some more tweaking over the course of October 13th-14th to make it even better. As it is, it can do Mountainside in 1:15, City in 0:54, Watkins Glen in 2:02 (I think that if I practiced I could crack 2 minutes with it), and San Francisco GP in 2:30.
It has some trouble with the downhill jumps on SFGP, which can be remedied by upping the rear swaybar to 25000, but I've found that if I do this, it adds a second or two to its lap times on every other track, and as it is I'd like it to be faster, not slower. The reason is that it still has trouble beating the 427 Cobra, which in real life it was supposed to be better than. For that matter, from 1966 to 1969, the GT40 was the most competitive GT sports car in the world, in spite of being a Ford with a four-barrel, normally aspirated pushrod V-8! For now, I'm just trying to take the SFGP downhill jumps as straight as possible, and the City corners at 60 for the bottom of the hill, and 50 for the top. If this is done, it can still get the same lap times as with the 25000 rear swaybar setting.
Any tips about how to get it to beat the Cobra would be welcome, however. That's the point of Alpha testing, isn't it? Also, if anyone's interested in doing the remodelling (if it's really necessary), let me know.
-Battlewagon
by Battlewagon, A-Rod and the Redline development team,
Released October 27th, 2010.
You may now download it from the Legacy of Lies developer uploads server...
http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/battlewagon/GT40MkIIAlpha4.zip
About two years ago, I began work on a proper GT40 for Redline, both because I wanted one (I was watching a lot of old Le Mans footage at the time), and because people had been requesting one from the earliest days of Redline. I've now run my Alphas through tests with some senior Redliners, and this latest Alpha is finally reasonably drivable. I'm not done with it yet, though, and at the moment it's still using the GT model from the game, so a lot remains to be finished and refined. The following description picks up where Alpha 3 left off...
This alpha contains some handling improvements based around a lowering of the vertical CoG to 0.34. In order to accommodate this change, I also made the following suspension settings...
supsensionFriction 375
damperStrength 15000
frontSwayBar 12500
rearSwayBar 27500
differentialLockCoefficient 90
As for the results, this car is now 1 second slower around Mountainside than the AC Cobra, and about 9 seconds faster around San Francisco GP than the Porsche 959. This sounds good, but really it's not satisfactory to me, for several reasons. First of all, the GT40 should be able to beat the AC Cobra easily, especially since I haven't yet tried to limit acceleration to authentic figures. Of course, the Redline AC Cobra is way too fast, but still the handling advantages of the GT40 should be manifest. As things are, the GT40 is more stable than the Cobra, but if the Cobra is well driven it's faster around corners, which is annoying. Another factor is that the Cobra is faster in a straight line, with 0-60 being reached in 2.7 seconds (the real car could do it in something between 3.2 and 4.2), as opposed to 3.1 on the GT40 (the real GT40 could do it in 4.2). Quarter mile times are also about .2 seconds faster for the Cobra. Using the Cobra's engine settings on the GT40 fails to solve this problem. I've tried it.
Although I think the GT40 is now quite stable and drivable, it's unrealistically fast in a straight line, yet unrealistically slow around corners, even if driving it is reasonably easy. Therefore, the next thing on the agenda will be to see if we can make it faster in the corners without becoming too unrealistic, then limit the acceleration to something resembling realistic figures. For those of you who tried the closed alphas, you'll remember that I'm reusing a lot of the same words from the old read me files, but this is because the statements are still relevant. Basically, this GT40 is better than it was, yet still not better than the Cobra, which within the context of Redline is a problem. Therefore....I'm making this Alpha semi-public by putting it on the Legacy forums and hoping that I can get more input.
-Battlewagon
Alpha history.....
1966 Ford GT40 Mk.II Alpha 3 for Redline
by Battlewagon, A-Rod and the Redline development team
Limited Release October 24th, 2010
This alpha contains some handling improvements largely authored by A-Rod, as well as a new collision box that is completely by A-Rod. The specific changes are...
-A new collision box.
-Rear swaybar decreased to 20500.
-Suspension friction increased to 550 (A-Rod's figure was 500, but I've found that 550 is more stable on Canyon without harming the handling too badly elsewhere).
-Vertical CoG changed to 0.42, with moments of inertia changed accordingly.
-Engine friction changed to 12 base, 0.012 RPM friction (this was also A-Rod's idea).
Here I should note that the two major differences between this Alpha, and then one sent to me by A-rod (other than the suspension friction) are that first of all, I've kept the authentic 38front/62rear weight distribution, and that I've left the differential lock coefficient at 100, since with the original front/rear weight distribution it doesn't seem to provide any benefit, and actually limits handling somewhat.
As for the results, this car is now 1 second slower around Mountainside than the AC Cobra, and about 8 seconds faster around San Francisco GP than the Porsche 959. This sounds good, but really it's not satisfactory to me, for several reasons. First of all, the GT40 should be able to beat the AC Cobra easily, especially since I haven't yet tried to limit acceleration to authentic figures. Of course, the Redline AC Cobra is way too fast, but still the handling advantages of the GT40 should be manifest. As things are, the GT40 is more stable than the Cobra, but if the Cobra is well driven it's faster around corners, which is annoying.
Although I think the GT40 is now quite stable and drivable, it's unrealistically fast, yet unrealistically slow around corners, even if driving it is reasonably easy. Therefore, the next thing on the agenda will be to see if we can make it faster in the corners without becoming too unrealistic, then limit the acceleration to something resembling realistic figures. For the moment, this is a limited release so that the Redline veterans can have a go at analyzing it properly. Please send me your input, if you can, as I'm trying to refine the handling before I decide whether to remodel it.
-Battlewagon
1966 Ford GT40 Mk.II Alpha 2 for Redline
by Battlewagon and the Redline development team
Limited Release October 19th, 2010
This is a tweak of the initial alpha. The changes are...
-The body model is now the one from data.redplug, as opposed to a copy.
-Rear swaybar increased to 27500.
-Front brakes increased to 7000, mainly for stability. They give a 60-0 distance of about 120 feet, which might be too good.
Right now, this car is about 2 seconds faster around Mountainside than the AC Cobra, and about 2 seconds faster around San Francisco GP than the Porsche 959. It can also match or beat the Corvette C6 ZR1 around Mountainside, which may be too good.
Okay, that's it. Check this Alpha out, and please get back to me with your suggestions.
-Battlewagon
1966 Ford GT40 Mk.II Alpha 1 for Redline
by Battlewagon and the Redline development team
Limited Release October 14th, 2010
Much has been said from the very earliest days of Redline about building a real Ford GT40 redplug, as opposed to settling for the Ford GT in the game. Like the real Ford GT, the Redline GT is overweight, and feels very much so. I'm sure I'm not alone in saying that I've lost a lot of races with it because I got stuck in a spin at 50 m.p.h.
So...many people have talked about about building a GT40, so I've made a modest start with this Alpha. To keep things simple, I've kept the original GT body model (to make it for the most part authentic, all that would be needed would be to give the texture accurate taillights and resize the model to 40 inches tall in Model Importer, in addition to building accurate wheel and interior models), and worked on the .car. This GT40 is supposed to be a 1966 Mk.II, with the 427 side-oiler engine. This isn't necessarily the most successful GT40 ever (the Mk. I Gulf might actually have a better race record, depending on one's opinion), and it certainly isn't the fastest if you count the P3 as a GT40, but it is nevertheless my favorite, and the favorite of a lot of people.
You'll notice that with the big 427 engine in the rear, while it's more nimble than the GT from the game, this GT40 is heavy in the rear. I managed to get it reasonably stable given this fact, however, and then after a-rod requested this Alpha, I did some more tweaking over the course of October 13th-14th to make it even better. As it is, it can do Mountainside in 1:15, City in 0:54, Watkins Glen in 2:02 (I think that if I practiced I could crack 2 minutes with it), and San Francisco GP in 2:30.
It has some trouble with the downhill jumps on SFGP, which can be remedied by upping the rear swaybar to 25000, but I've found that if I do this, it adds a second or two to its lap times on every other track, and as it is I'd like it to be faster, not slower. The reason is that it still has trouble beating the 427 Cobra, which in real life it was supposed to be better than. For that matter, from 1966 to 1969, the GT40 was the most competitive GT sports car in the world, in spite of being a Ford with a four-barrel, normally aspirated pushrod V-8! For now, I'm just trying to take the SFGP downhill jumps as straight as possible, and the City corners at 60 for the bottom of the hill, and 50 for the top. If this is done, it can still get the same lap times as with the 25000 rear swaybar setting.
Any tips about how to get it to beat the Cobra would be welcome, however. That's the point of Alpha testing, isn't it? Also, if anyone's interested in doing the remodelling (if it's really necessary), let me know.
-Battlewagon
Battlewagon- Addict
- Number of posts : 54
Registration date : 2008-10-14
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