Easy question.

[Kenners]

I think...

If I wanted to do a lite version of a track, yet have them compatible in MP, what is necessary?

Thanks,

Kenners

[C14ru5]

I know that if a track has references to textures that don't exist, the track still launches and is compatible in Multiplayer, but those textures are replaced by white surfaces. However, I don't know about any other (less ugly) tricks that you can use.

[Pax-raider]

I think...

If I wanted to do a lite version of a track, yet have them compatible in MP, what is necessary?

Thanks,

Kenners

Haven't tested this, but if the number of models, model names, texture names .road/.roadtypes/.mapinfo names are the same you should be good. If the lite version requires models to be removed I don't know if it will work, but not too hard to test it...

EDIT: I guess you could "remove" them by replacement with a simpler dummy - a microscopic one-face-no-tex model with the same name.

[Kenners]

i was thinking, a second mapinfo file in some manner. Inside the mapinfo, where you set the name of the track, maybe name it the same with the word "lite" tacked on. Is it the name of the mapinfo file itself that will create the DFM, or something inside the mapinfo that will cause it?

Since 2 files with the same name can't be in the same folder, I'm guessing I'd have to have 2 separate redplugs. But I also think it'd be fine if the "lite" redplug had nothing in it except the mapinfo, since ALL the other files (road, roadtypes, mdls/ents, txrs) would be present in the main redplug. As long as both redplugs were present, of course. I could package them all in one folder with a readme.

At any rate, I envision a "lite" version as leaving out mdls, not necessarily changing textures.

Thoughts?

edit - posts crossed.. Thx, pax

Kenners

[Kenners]

well, if I place a second folder in the plugins folder with just a mapinfo in it that has exactly the same file name as the mapinfo for the "real" track (with an edited track name inside it), it won't show up when selecting a track. Adding the .road and .roadtypes to the folder does not help either. So, it appears that once Redline sees a mapinfo by name, it won't see the next one. If I rename the "lite" folder so it is before the "real" one alphabetically (I put an asterisk in front of the name), then IT shows up in the selection list, but NOT the "real" one.

The question remains: can I somehow place 2 mapinfos in a plugin that will be separately selectable and can be mixed & matched in MP without causing a DFM? Can anyone confirm that it's the mapinfo file name that causes DFMs?

Kenners

[djpimley]

The question remains: can I somehow place 2 mapinfos in a plugin that will be separately selectable and can be mixed & matched in MP without causing a DFM?

An identical track name or file name will be interpreted by Redline as a duplicate and it will load just one of the two. That is why you couldn't see both versions of the track - they share all the same file names and so Redline sees them as duplicates and ignores one. Different plug-ins and sub-folders don't matter to Redline because it flattens it's file list.

But your reasoning is confused: you want the player to see the two versions of the track as unique and separate but you want Redline to see them as identical, despite the fact that players and the game both use the same criteria to decide what makes one track different from another - the name!

The solution is to make a duplicate of the entire plug-in and release it separately as a "Lite" version. Don't change the track name or the mapinfo file name because Redline uses these to check for DFM in multiplayer. To create your lite version, reduce and re-compress any textures you think are too big and replace any unnecessary objects with a dummy object (you don't need to touch the mapinfo file at all.) Create a tiny object in Blender that is just a single plane, and for good measure place it several metres below ground level (0,0,0) in Blender. This ensures that the tiny single face dummy objects will be rendered in-game well below the scenery model so they won't be seen by players.

[Kenners]

Maybe I'll try this:

Create my redplug WITHOUT a mapinfo. Put it in a folder; then have 2 folders inside it, one with a mapinfo for the "lite" version, one with a mapinfo for the "heavy" version, and a readme which says, remove whichever folder contains the version you DON'T want.

Surely this will confuse people, but it is fairly simple..

That way, the "lite" mapinfo can just have the entries for the tree models & whatever removed from it, and all the other files can be the same.. I guess it depends on how much the slowdown is from trees/alpha, and how much from textures. But you know, I always thought running textures through Texture Compressor obviated the need to sample pngs down... ?

Kenners

[djpimley]

Create my redplug WITHOUT a mapinfo. Put it in a folder; then have 2 folders inside it, one with a mapinfo for the "lite" version, one with a mapinfo for the "heavy" version, and a readme which says, remove whichever folder contains the version you DON'T want.

If you'll forgive me saying so, I think this is silly. This means you'll be releasing a plug-in which is inherently broken, then inviting the user to fix it. This is a much more complicated method than what I described, both for you and the end user. If you are determined to edit the mapinfo, just do it the way I described with two separate plug-ins.

[Kenners]

This works.

I ran plugin packer on the Mid-Ohio folder WITHOUT a redplug inside. Then I put it in a folder, named the folder Mid-Ohio, and created 2 folders inside, one named Mid Ohio Full, and one named Mid Ohio Lite.

In the first one, I put the normal mapinfo file.

In the second one, I put the mapinfo file that I edited; I removed mdl entries for about 15 things, and changed the track name to Mid Ohio Lite v1.03. The file names are the same.

If I leave both of those folders in there, I get the normal version. If I remove the Mid Ohio Full folder, I get the lite version.

Now: Will they DFM in MP? I can PM it to someone (its 8k) & we can try. All thats necessary is to unzip it & drop it in the plugins folder. Don't remove anything; the folder name starts with an * so Redline loads it first.

Kenners

[djpimley]

Will they DFM in MP?

Yes, I think so. You changed the in-game name. I think for car and track plug-ins, both the .car / .mapinfo file name and the in-game name matters. The in-game name definitely matters for cars.

[Kenners]

I'm learning..

If I alter a mapinfo file, removing ONLY references to mdls or ents, save it, and place it in a folder which I name "*Mid-Ohio", then it is seen first by Redline when it loads the list of tracks (thanks to the asterisk). And indeed, when I open Redline & select Mid-Ohio, the "lite" version loads.

This is with the normal, full, stand-alone Mid-Ohio redplug left in place in the Plugins folder.

Now I go into MP. Epeli helped me out here.. He hosts, he selects Mid Ohio, I join. No problem so far. He starts the race: NOW there's a problem.. I see my track fine, but the ONLY evidence of the existence of Epeli's car is the exhaust coming out of his car's tailpipe. And he sees the same. So, I try to run into him - he isn't there.

I tried hosting as well, and the symptoms were the same..

dj, I should have listened to you, but I really hoped this would work.

What if, instead of deleting references to mdls (as I tried), I replaced the names of the models I want to delete with "null.mdl"; would that work, or do I have to go thru the step of creating a dummy 1-poly model, duplicating it however many times I need to, then renaming them all to the mdls I want removed.. Then replace the mdls in question with the dummys & releasing a whole 'nother redplug?

Kenners

[djpimley]

What if, instead of deleting references to mdls (as I tried), I replaced the names of the models I want to delete with "null.mdl"

Ah, yes. I forgot - when you race in MP, each copy of Redline creates a giant list of in-game models starting with the items in the mapinfo file and then appending another item for each racer's car. When racing in MP, when Epeli's Redline tells your Redline where his car is on the track, it actually just says "item 101 in position XYZ" - but if you have different mapinfo files then your item 101 might be a tree (if you have more items) or nothing at all (if you have less items). Make sense?

Using "null.mdl" will probably work; if it doesn't, just change all items you want to replace in the mapinfo to "mydummy.mdl" and create such a dummy model. It's more work in the mapinfo file but less work in the Finder than the method I described before.

[Pax-raider]

Yeah, that sounds like it should work.

The only other thing to do would be to include a "Lite" in the splash screen image itself, so people know for sure that's what they've got...

EDIT: alternatively, put the dummy models with a z of +100m, and position their x y until they spell "Lite".

[DANDY]

I'd mix the methods. I tried something similar with LRP, hosting an MP when I had an updated version with new models. Other cars appeared as the new models for me, and I was either invisible or a hay bale or something to them. To save some work here, make copies of the null.mdl, and rename them to match the missing models from your full-featured track. This will require an either/or download as you suspected.

[Kenners]

I'd mix the methods. I tried something similar with LRP, hosting an MP when I had an updated version with new models. Other cars appeared as the new models for me, and I was either invisible or a hay bale or something to them. To save some work here, make copies of the null.mdl, and rename them to match the missing models from your full-featured track. This will require an either/or download as you suspected.

I've used Plugin Splitter on numerous occasions to unpack the built in stuff and never noticed "null.mdl" - but it is there somewhere, right?

-K

[Pax-raider]

I haven't seen it either, but "null.mdl" may just be recognized as a string that is interpreted by the RL code as meaning "there isn't a model for this" and it skips the model drawing code.

EDIT: I discovered that actually there is one, all 108 bytes of it, in data.redplug, jonas himself used it in his Valley track...

[Kenners]

I haven't seen it either, but "null.mdl" may just be recognized as a string that is interpreted by the RL code as meaning "there isn't a model for this" and it skips the model drawing code.

EDIT: I discovered that actually there is one, all 108 bytes of it, in data.redplug, jonas himself used it in his Valley track...

108 bytes?? 0.1k?? good lord, what a space waster..

-K

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