GT3 - Redline specs

[Tomte]

Can we just get a short list together of values for the up and coming GT3 class. I guess that could help some other developers (me?) to spit out some cars.

What kind of regulations did you come up with (if at all) in terms of

Weight (FIA GT3 page?)
Ballast
Power to weight ratio
Air Resistance (factory + xxx for the additional wings?)
Downforce
Gearbox (factory?)
Shift Times
Tire dimensions (FIA GT3 page?)
Tyre stickyness (0.2 or a range?)
Loadsensitivity
Lap times or top speed on reference tracks?

I guess a certain number of skins would also be required.

Thanks

[NoNameBrand]

• Weight: From the FIA - if in doubt (ie, a made up GT3 car), look at the difference between the other road cars and their racing counterparts. Add 100kg for fuel/driver.
  
• Ballast: The FIA lists changes per-race on the site, and I think the permanent additions are included in the dry weight (at least, the Z06-R's number went up season to season)
  
• Weight to power ratio: range is 2.11kg/hp to 2.63kg/hp (most are 2.3-2.5).
  
• Air Resistance: (factory + xxx for the additional wings?) yes.
  
• Downforce: -1.26ish split as you desire, but pay attention to what the car model has - diffusers and splitters are very efficient drag-to-downforce, huge wings aren't.
  
• Gearbox: stock or a 6 speed sequential one - as near as I can tell every car type is running a 6 speed sequential by the second season of its participation. Ratios are up to you.
  
• Shift Times: 0.15 on sequential, 0.4+ for an H-pattern.
  
• Tire dimensions: FIA GT3 page has the spec. All are Michelins in the series, and unfortunately they don't actually list products (that I can find) on their site. Any valid racing tire size is fine.
  
• Tyre stickyness: 0.2 ish? I set the Z06-R's to that because the car was given harder compound tires. The Mustang has 0.22.
  
• Loadsensitivity: Up to you.
  
• Lap times or top speed on reference tracks: I haven't looked recently, but I don't think any of the four existing cars have really been wrung out yet. But if you have a look, just aim to compete on any of the European tracks. If your car has a slight edge on one but is dull on another, that's OK.
  

In real life, the GT3 spec is basically "as good as a Porsche 997 GT3, but not better". If it's not as good as the Porsche, you won't win, and if it's better, the FIA penalizes the car with restrictor plates (less power), harder tires, and/or ballast. The Z06-R got all three. I think it would be a good standard for us, even if it's a bit more iterative for the the developer than normal.

Six-seven skins would be perfect, with a European flavour, ideally.

[Tomte]

What about Start numbers?
I've prepared a little spreadsheet on Google Docs
This is how it looks like today (auto updating, freely editable)

GT3 Start Numbers

[NoNameBrand]

.psd of GT3 related badges and pixel flags that I've created thus far, for anyone interested:

http://lonelyfridge.com/project_files/redline/gt3_badges_flags.zip

[alphonse]

Dear Developers, developers, developers,

i am really looking forward to the GT3 championship.
As the discussion in the 968 topic shows, an "equilibrium" is to be found for the GT3 cars in order to have a nice tournament.

I would like to ask you to keep an eye on it and to communicate about "no changes during championship", "plugin-deadlines" and tech spec in here.
I can not be of much help - sorry, but in the name of fun - we need that discussion...

thank you,

alf

[Tomte]

As for the 968's performance, if it's competitive now to the poorer handling cars (the Z06.R especially, though I really don't like driving the Lambo and 997), what happens when those cars get updated? I certainly intend to make the Z06.R handle better this week, and minor changes to the Mustang (I think it's a bit bouncy right now).

from the 968 topic

You said earlier on that the 997 is the benchmark. I think we can stick to that.
If you're going to update the handling on the Z06.R and the Mustang, the cars probably need reigning in on another parameter. Top speed, weight (which will affect the handling again), tyre compound could be adjusted.

Same goes for the 968. What I took from the discussion over there is to leave the 968 as it is atm. My drives will need to cope, I guess some complaining of them is just natural.

If the overall performance level of the GT3 cars raises, I will try to keep up with the 968. As mentioned, power is on the very low side, custom gearing might bring something, or some aero fiddlings.

Certainly, I also don't want that all GT3 cars behave the same easy way, I'd like to keep the different personalities.

So for now, my first comment regarding the Vanquish's performance still stands. With improved cornering from v1.0, the top speed and acceleration advantage is quite significant.
The new power rpm's change the performance slightly, but the Vanquish still easily reaches speeds above 310 kph, is still cracking the mile in less than 26 seconds.

[NoNameBrand]

I never intended for the 1.0 release to be "it" heading into the tourney. I just want more data as it gets used in multiplayer.

As for the Z06.R - I don't recall having trouble keeping up in it, and Toad is quite competitive with it. I guess my concern is that the slow turn-in makes it inaccessible. If I can get over my junior high desire to be popular, I could just leave it the hell alone.

The Mustang needs to become less likely to roll over during a race - curbs are especially murderous to it, and not even the jump-ramp curbs of some tracks, but regular curbs that the other GT3 cars can handle just fine.

[Toad]

As for the Z06.R - I guess my concern is that the slow turn-in makes it inaccessible. If I can get over my junior high desire to be popular, I could just leave it the hell alone.

Yes, I vote leave it the hell alone and call it pretty.

Driving the Dev version for two days now clearly showed me how I was subconsciously driving the original. Tossing the thing into turns under braking and using the release of the pedal to get her pointed straight for the exit so to put the power down early for the straight. The new one just can't do that (for me at least).

[NoNameBrand]

That 'new' one isn't the finished 'new' one, it's just the thing I'm working on.

I certainly don't want to ruin it, I'm driving it too, remember, and like it how it is now. I want any revised version to have all the good qualities it has now, so that the only change we have to deal with is starting our steering input later than we've trained ourselves to do. I have no idea if this is possible.

The Vanquish is fast, but it took most of the straights of Monza for it to catch up with my Z06.R, tonight, which is able to out brake it. Pinkest was kicking arse with it though on other tracks, but I don't feel like I'm consistent or competent enough of an opponent to judge on some of the others (Donnington, especially - those blind curves have much later braking points than I guess).

[djpimley]

So it's past midnight, I have to be up in 6 hours and I have insomnia again. I'm sitting here eating ice cream and I decided it's time to spruce up some of my cars to compete with the ever more beautiful competition.

The XJ220/C is going to get a tidy up and some improved skins so I thought I may as well jump on this train. Does anyone want to make an XJ220 GT3? I don't want to make it as a solo project but I know if I don't ask now then someone will ask me why I didn't make a GT3 when I release the update.

[DANDY]

Another fake GT3

I vote for the Renegade!!

[djpimley]

Another fake GT3

I vote for the Renegade!!

You cashed in your chips. Go play with Windows.

[Tomte]

Another fake GT3

I vote for the Renegade!!

Some people care about 'authenticism', others about game play.

[DANDY]

Go play with Windows.

not so fast...

[djpimley]

Wow, the response is overwhelming. Then the XJ220C will remain lonely and aloof in the GT1 class.

[Pax-raider]

Wow, the response is overwhelming. Then the XJ220C will remain lonely and aloof in the GT1 class.

dj - i somehow missed the original question, seeing only the jousting afterwards. It would be great to find a class for the XJ220C so it gets raced more (I hadn't seen it used in MP for maybe a year until the other day, when I ran it with Pastrl...). What else might there be to race with if GT1 was expanded?

[djpimley]

What else might there be to race with if GT1 was expanded?

McLaren F1, Ferrari F40 and Porsche 911 were contemporaries of the XJ220C in the BPR GT which would soon become GT1.

[Toad]

Go play with Windows.

not so fast...

or Go outside and play, the hell with looking through windows.

[NoNameBrand]

Wow, the response is overwhelming. Then the XJ220C will remain lonely and aloof in the GT1 class.

dj - i somehow missed the original question, seeing only the jousting afterwards. It would be great to find a class for the XJ220C so it gets raced more (I hadn't seen it used in MP for maybe a year until the other day, when I ran it with Pastrl...). What else might there be to race with if GT1 was expanded?

There's the C6.R. I don't intend to modify it to make it the dumbed down GT2 car that's happening part way through the ALMS season this year.

[See Flat]

sigh

[alphonse]

somehow i am lost in this topic.
what exactly is it bout?

i dunno, but for me this is a mess.
maybe i am just lost in translation - would not be the first time...

alf

[Tomte]

... XJ220 GT3? ...

Given that I created one of the made-up GT3's, I know this might sound daft.
I can't decide if I am for or against a XJ200 GT3. While I would be willing to help with the development, I somehow feel that it should remain in a GT1 class.

[djpimley]

I somehow feel that it should remain in a GT1 class.

Perhaps you are right. It's just a shame it is so lonely.

Hopefully with it's new slinky looks and new moniker (dropping the "Le Mans" in favour of "XJ220C GT1") it will get noticed again and could become the reference car for the GT1 class. Just don't ask me to rationalise the specs.

[C14ru5]

It's just a shame [the XJ220C] is so lonely.

Cheer up, there's both the C6.R and the Ultima GTR to keep it company. And I may even have a dusty 3D model of the Mosler MT900R lying around somewhere...

[Valentin K]

And I may even have a dusty 3D model of the Mosler MT900R lying around somewhere...

Bring it !!! I've been loving that car since I first saw it years ago on TV.

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